Battle of the Seasons: San Diego - Frank, Zach, Ashley, Sam

David079;319762 wrote:
I'm assuming based on the clip MTV posted last week. AND I am the only person who has this viewpoint. Everyone else is "OMG hang frank!". I'm not "people", I'm one person.

It wasn't just you.

David079;319764 wrote:
Strange. If you check out that board or youtube comments or anything else, Zach was a folk hero for people to use to release their frustrations about gay people.

This is ridiculous. You're basically accusing Americans of hating gays and therefore loving Zach. It's absolutely ridiculous but whatever makes you feel better.

kvm1977;319766 wrote:
This is ridiculous. You're basically accusing Americans of hating gays and therefore loving Frank. It's absolutely ridiculous but whatever makes you feel better.

Huh? You lost me there. Nobody loves Frank. What I'm saying is that Zach was heavily celebrated for his beliefs. Which is the truth. It's all over the internet.

kvm1977;319765 wrote:
It wasn't just you

I think maybe one other person?

David079;319767 wrote:
Huh? You lost me there. Nobody loves Frank. What I'm saying is that Frank was heavily celebrated for his beliefs. Which is the truth. It's all over the internet.

Change Frank to Zach--I'll edit it. I don't think this about the truth at all but I'll just leave it at that.

kvm1977;319769 wrote:
Change Frank to Zach--I'll edit it. I don't think this about the truth at all but I'll just leave it at that.

Sure you don't. Because then you wouldn't have any reason to post how uncomfortable gays make you. By the way, I meant "Zach" in place of Frank in my post. It's edited now. And yes, Zach was very heavily celebrated all over the web. 99% of the youtube comments on the Zach/Frank after show are "Zach put that sissy boy in his place!! hallelujah" paraphrasing of course but that is the general tone,

David079;319770 wrote:
Sure you don't. Because then you wouldn't have any reason to post how uncomfortable gays make you.

LMAO

David079;319761 wrote:
Are you kidding? 90% of this board is up Zach's butt and was even during the season.

I'm not sure if you've read the same thread I have, but you are sorely mistaken.

David079;319756 wrote:
The only thing that bothered me about them was the way they acted about service members being honored. Those people fight for their freedom and they're big jokes to them just because they're gay?

OK, yeah I actually forgot about that. That was definitely wrong of them.

David079;319761 wrote:
Are you kidding? 90% of this board is up Zach's butt and was even during the season. It just seems like people have to reiterate how uncomfortable with gays they are (for the THOUSANDTH time) when ever the SD season comes up and it's obnoxious. And this is coming from someone who hated Frank.

1. Um no, actually, a lot of people disliked Frank AND Zach, Ashley. 2. They = Zach and Ashley? Or people?

I want to know what happend between Zach en Frank? They are like friendly to each other?

I would root for this team but Frank makes it extremely difficult. I really hoped after his RW Season he would have matured but from the 1st episode and the preview for the rest if the season he doesn't seem to have changed at all. The other 3 I like, I always thought Zach was a better fit for the Challenge than the RW, I think Ashley will do well and the same for Sam. But again if Frank can control himself and drinking I think he could be very good for the Challenge.

This team would be awesome if Frank wouldn't be in.

Frank is such a sad human being. His craving for attention is gross, pathetic, and annoying. I love drama, but his drama is contrived and annoying. I hope BMP realizes he produces terrible ratings and this will be his only challenge. Also I like Zach but his behavior on twitter is just as pathetic as Frank. The way he treats Trey, makes him look like nothing more than a pathetic 7th grade bully. Sucks if they don't get eliminated soon.

Something about Frank turns me on. I bet he has great sex lol

Frank being friends with Zach will always help him if they are both on challenges. But I hope Frank comes back with the main new vets. I just want to see how he handles not being the power person and if he tries to do what Wes did on Fresh Meat 2 and lead his own crew or if he just freaks out and causes drama. I am guessing the 2nd option.

I would like to see Frank move to Gabon, Africa and never return. He is a humiliation to the human race.

TheKorean;320124 wrote:
Something about Frank turns me on. I bet he has great sex lol

Ew. He looks dirty.

Kajun;320135 wrote:
I would like to see Frank move to Gabon, Africa and never return. He is a humiliation to the human race.

Frank is quite irritating, on every level. I could never imagine being friends with a bipolar person like him. When he gets drunk, I always envision if it was me he started with and how hard he get knocked out. Let's face it, if Zach wasn't there protecting him, every other cast member would have ripped into him. I still can't understand why Zach kissed him on the lips either.

The difficult part for Frank will be to mastermind challenges after this. When you are a rookie, no one knows how you will play the game, which works to your advantage. Now that people know his strategy, the entire dynamic changes. Wes was able to build a solid alliance in FM2, but hasn't been able to do so since then because people know his gameplan coming into the Challenge. If Frank is able to build an alliance even when people know he is trying to do so going into the Challenge, then it will be even more impressive.

I can't wait to see whatever makes Frank scream "I will not be made out to look like a CRAZY PERSON!" in the season preview. Hopefully the tide turns against him soon. And he BETTER be the first half of his team to go home. A Zach/Ashley team would be interesting.

Sloan;320278 wrote:
I can't wait to see whatever makes Frank scream "I will not be made out to look like a CRAZY PERSON!" in the season preview. Hopefully the tide turns against him soon. And he BETTER be the first half of his team to go home. A Zach/Ashley team would be interesting.

Too little too late, Franklin....

I don't get all this hatred for Frank..Well I do get it but people are acting like he is the spawn of Satan. I do think that he (and the rest of his team) need to chill out with that ego. But he isn't awful.

Frank reaks of annoying and camera-*****. So ridiculous. The "drama" he causes isn't even entertaining (well, in my opinion).

Debut Album;320312 wrote:
I don't get all this hatred for Frank..Well I do get it but people are acting like he is the spawn of Satan. I do think that he (and the rest of his team) need to chill out with that ego. But he isn't awful.

EXACTLY! A little dose of humble pie would do the SD2 team some good... but its not as if Frank is Satan... IT IS JUST THE BEGINNING people

Frank is just obnoxious. He's the easiest cast member to hate in years.

I just wanted to voice a quick dissenting opinion, since it seems (based on a cursory reading of this thread) that everybody thinks Zach and Ashley are super nice non-homophobic people and Frank is a psychopath. Frank has issues, obviously. It's a fact. Nobody's arguing that. But it appeared that in San Diego that Zach and Ashley were more of the problem people. It seemed clear by that final episode when the other five were all laughing and hanging out and Zach and Ashley were alone. At least Frank, with all his crazy, seemed to genuinely want to be friends with everyone in the house. (Or maybe he just wants to be liked, he clearly has problems with feeling rejected after his mother rejected him.) Zach and Ashley made it CLEAR that they didn't come on the show to make friends and didn't care to get to know anyone or meet anyone that was different than themselves, both on the show and at the reunion. Wouldn't anyone be frustrated to go on the freakin' Real World and have roommates who say they don't want to get to know anyone? Why would you go on the show? And they clearly had homophobic problems with Frank. When Frank and Ashley met on day one, and he said he was ********, Ashley immediately got uncomfortable. They refused to go to any gay event, and complained when they had to actually go to one FOR WORK. It was just a job, there was no reason for them to act so repulsed - but they went and POUTED and had a general air about them like everyone around them was unclean. They didn't try to do their jobs. They really had a problem with Frank having sex, which they would not have if he had been with a woman. I believe they said as much, Ashley saying in a confessional "Zach and I get along because we have the same opinion, we are on the same page because we don't think Frank should be with men" - this is not a direct quote but it was something to that effect. If you have a problem with same-sex sex but not heterosexual sex, you have homophobic tendencies. (This is just my personal opinion for a moment, but I often find when people say, "I don't have a problem with gay people, I just wish they wouldn't be so public with it", they're a homophobe. Nobody would ever get upset with a man and woman for kissing in public. This is just from my own experience.) And as for the argument, "they aren't homophobic, they just didn't like Frank because he was annoying." Well, Frank and Sam were close buddies through the whole show, and when push came to shove he wouldn't support her. Remember that episode where Sam had that big freakout? It was surprising to me, given how even-keeled she'd been, but I guess when she realized that even after getting to know her Zach STILL wouldn't support her she'd had enough. If Zach's issue wasn't with gay stuff, just with Frank, he wouldn't have been weird with Sam. Not to mention the heinous comments that were made about gay soldiers - soldiers who put their lives on the line to protect their liberties. I kind of think that was example enough on its own. I don't hate Zach and Ashley. They just seemed like incredibly close-minded people to me on their season. But they all seem to get along just fine now (ESPECIALLY Zack and Frank. Can someone explain to me how they went from HATING EACH OTHER'S GUTS to besties? Seriously, I'm dying to know) so I have no outstanding problems with them. I'm just saying for the people acting like Zach and Ashley are saints... it's not really as simple as that. This was my first post here. Peace out!

ItsAlex;320375 wrote:
This was my first post here. Peace out!

(NOTE: I only quoted the very last sentence so there wasn't a reposting of your rather long tirade :D ) I agree with some of the claims you made. I kind of forgot about most of the things you brought up from the SD season, mainly because that season is easy to forget. I remember thinking at first that Zach and Ashley weren't the nicest people, but I also remember not liking Frank at all. For the most part (Nate excluded), I enjoyed the other cast members. What I don't like about Frank was his loud personality and his ability to turn anything into a dramatic situation (haircut fight with Priscilla?). What I like about Zach and Ashley is that they're seemingly down to Earth. They look like they know how to just chill and have a good time. Sure, they went in kind of close-minded and with some homophobic tendencies, but I feel like they were willing to change (obviously they were if they're friends with Frank now). On the other hand, you have Frank, who is exactly the same as he was on RW:B2SD. He's just incredibly selfish and has a huge ego. As a side note though, as I was watching episode 2 of the challenge and he said "let's be real: I'm going to run this challenge" or whatever that was, it crossed my mind that he could be "playing a character" similar to what Wes apparently does when he's on TV.

ItsAlex;320375 wrote:
This was my first post here. Peace out!

Very well thought out and well-articulated post, and hopefully this won't be your last one. There appear to be a lot of varying opinions regarding Zach, Ashley, and Frank. During the season, it appeared that the majority (on this site, anyway) did not like Zach OR Frank. I heard many things about all three during filming of their RW season, both from people who knew them personally and those involved in production. The consensus was not that Ashley was following Zach like a puppy dog, but vice versa. As for Frank, he's admitted in interviews that he believes himself to be a bit bipolar (which doesn't excuse his behavior, but may explain some of it). It's clear he does not care what people think of him or how he portrays himself on television - those who know him know who he is, and he's ok with that. I've heard from multiple people (most recently Derek in his interview) that TV Frank is VERY different from real life Frank. The people who matter to Frank know real life Frank. Real life Frank has been described to me as loyal, kindhearted, and driven. Unfortunately, this is not the Frank we see on TV. Frank doesn't care.

JMO--Zach & Ashley aren't "super nice people" but I don't see the homophobia at all. Even from the discussions of what happened on the show I fail to see that as homophobic. Frank comes across as an awful person and I think Zach does as well. Maybe Ashley doesn't because she's quiet. Either way I don't see how really any of these 4 are exactly "likable" with the possible exception of Sam because I have nothing to base it on yet. It doesn't even seem like she's there.

kvm1977;320381 wrote:
JMO--Zach & Ashley aren't "super nice people" but I don't see the homophobia at all. Even from the discussions of what happened on the show I fail to see that as homophobic. Frank comes across as an awful person and I think Zach does as well. Maybe Ashley doesn't because she's quiet. Either way I don't see how really any of these 4 are exactly "likable" with the possible exception of Sam because I have nothing to base it on yet. It doesn't even seem like she's there.

Being homophobic has nothing to do with being nice or mean. You can be the quietest person ever and still have homophobic tendencies. It lies within what you're exposed to or what you're taught to believe.